Well Draak, the reason you only see one combat cruiser is because in the manual that comes with the box version of sins, maybe even a pdf with the digital download (I don't know since I purchased the box version), it clearly states that the frigates are your battle force and the "cruisers are only slightly larger and take on a more specialized support role."  It's clear intent by the developers that Cruisers in and of themselves aren't your fleet, nor your big guns, so no attention was given to them to be the "gap bridgers" between frigates and caps.  In actuality, the Kodiak really needs to trade places with the Protev since the Kodiak is a fighting machine and the Protev by definition is support through colonization.  If you really want to look at it, the Kodiak is the bigger brother of the Cobalt, and if you have entrenchment, the Ogrov is the bigger brother of the Krosov, so actually, some slight attention was given.  But even so, the frigates are your fleet.

If any ships are added, I'd like to see the pirates drop the use of the Akkan, Dunov, Vulkoras, and Halcyon, and someone model up new cap ships and strike craft for them.  Maybe not the strike craft...  *looking in SivCorp's direction for that.*  Maybe even add the Akkan replacement into the list of ships that makes the raids since they never colonize anything.  Hell, use the one he already modeled and posted in the lore.  It'd be fun to see pirates Ion Bolting ships.

The real issue here isn't the need for bigger and better ships.  PbHead will still beat us all.  It's the tactics employed by the player.  PbHead adapts to the battle faster then we do, that's why he wins with the exact same ships, even when 3 of us are ganging up on him.  (This weekend I'd like to see him try a 4 on 1.  )  Seeing cruiser versions of the Garda and the Javalis would be nice, but why?  Cruisers are for support.  Frigates are your fleet.  Changing that kind of changes the game, doesn't it?

Don't forget... the next update the team will be doing a major nerfing of bombers

What's wrong with more combat vessels?

There is nothing wrong with more combat units, if they fill a specific role. Honestly there not any I can see that are not filled. I fully agree with what Stant said.

The unit Twilight has suggested seems to me to be OP. Just based on what he is suggesting currently. Sure they wont do the same damage as the units they are combining but once you reach a certaint point the numbers you will have will negate any reduced damage. And honestly once you have those there no reason to build anything else. So the whole balance format goes out the window. Not to mention even if you make a counter this ship does just about every damage type so...again once you reach a large number of these nothing will stop them.

LOL, thats all we need is another bombers late game.

This touches on the why we are nerfing bomber/carriers. By end game there is no reason not to build 100's of them and have 100's of SC. With the increased research alot of ships get crazy HP and damage. So, units that had advantaged in normal SINS have this amplified. SC are a prime example. Personaly, I hate how carriers are the end all be all of most fleets. I seriously would love to see carriers go back to just carrying 1 SC squad(2 for Advent). But I dont think that will happen. So instead Ive suggested we bump up the carrier fleet point heavly. So people can still use them but at an increased hit to any supporting ships one can field.

Anyhow, nothing wrong it suggestions and such. I just think combining units goes against what SINS is...role specific units working togehter.

I wasn't necessary promoting anything, just dabbling. Unless I say "I'll do it!" I'm not the guy to say yes to squat. I'm lazy like that.

As far as cruisers not being the gap bridge, I see what you mean but also see how it could be added to in order to change that. But that is more than I think this mod is intended for. I'm not so much worried about the Dev's thoughts as much as ours. Hell, we can make the whole game about ponies with 1 HP and 5,000,000 DMG. Ah, the dream.

I would like to see the pirates get a make-over since that's already been done to some small extent. Especially with the new mixed abilities, it would be fitting. Once again, need someone committed.

And I do and don't agree with carriers being the end all. On the one hand, it would be nice to see two very different forces balanced in a way (especially if spam forces) where they stop one another dead in their tracks. On the other hand, it pretty much just fits recent military thought, where planes have a major advantage over other forms of military power. Missiles change that in real life, but the devs apparently missed the past 50 years of history. Meh.

As for me, I'm just taking suggestions for skins. I've got do three separate races and button panel for TEC. Anyone have more to spit up?

Was just a suggestion.  8th tier, late game, and 1 for each race, making them to counter to eachother.  Everyone would have the option to get them at the same time, so unbeatable doesn't really apply IMO, but again, just a suggestion.

I started a reference chart, nearly done with the TEC portion.  Listed under Strategy if you're interested.  I'ma eventually do short explainations of unit purposes and add in all the buildings.

Other Races will be added on there, or made into their own threads.

-Twilight Storm | My life for the Dahkri

We understand it's only a suggestion, this would be the counterpoint to the suggestion.  If you really want to see it considered, then you gotta get behind it and state why it's important.  The thing that's wrong with more combat vessels is that there's already enough to fill all of the roles of combat.  You would have a point, for example, if there was a need for a missile ship and none existed, however since there is one, making a bigger one, is only adding a bigger one, and a bigger one that can bombard planets and fight off strike craft is called a Marza.  Adding in a cloaked spy ship is an example of something that may be seen as being needed to counter the diplomatic ships.  I can get behind something like that.  But making a stand alone mini cap regardless of you only getting 1 or more then one doesn't really serve much of a purpose other then to satisfy players who are bored and want to see more ships, or those who fail in tactics and think this will solve their problems not considering that their opponent will get one too and will probably use it better then them as well.  Creating something like a ship that has the power of the super weapon (or a little less) for that particular race and takes double or triple the amount of resources to make and takes a lot away from your fleet supply, I could get behind that.  There currently is no such thing as a mobile super weapon.  I'd be nice to fire and go.  Free's up your planets for defenses and makes them harder to locate and take out...  Think of them as ICBM submarines.  You should be thinking along the lines of what is missing rather then combining two or more of what's already there.  You got a better shot at convincing people of the need that way.

Oh and twilight, you should link to your thread if you're going to promote it.  It won't always be easy to find.

I know what Distant Stars needs: a combination flak/LRM cruiser!

still backing my ponies

Space ponies, +1000 damage when attacking anything Vasari.  Exhaust trails all have rainbows.

If anyone can find some good Models to use for the Pirate cap ships I am open for suggestions. Just PM them to me and I will evaluate them

- Lord Ryat of the DS Pirates

All my suggestion would have done would be making the fleets of the late-game dish out more damage overall.  At the start, the ships would be slightly underpowered for what they are, whish to say, basically an armed carrier.

Long Range Frigate Weapons.

Anti-Squadron Weapons.

Planet Bombardment Weapons.

2 Squadrons(Or maybe 1 would be a bit smarter  still want light carriers to be an option...)

A brace of special abilities.

Roughly Kodiak hull/shields/-1 from Kodiak's armor(4, i think)

Scenario:

Super Cruiser costs 14 supply

LRF Costs 4 Supply

Even if Super Cruiser doubles its damag output(I'm thinking 1.5x myself), while it would be aunit to be reckoned with, LRF would still have a place for a fleet where LRF are the main unit needed.

Scenario:

Super Cruiser Costs 14 Supply

Flak Costs 4? supply(Forgot to add supply costs to my chart...gonna have to do that.)

Same as above.

This ship would simply be designed so that near the end of the game, your fleet will dish out more overall damage, by needing less of each individual ship, leaving room for you to deploy the proper number of Envoys to get that game aspect where you want it, a large scouting force(Yeah, not hard on its own-10 scouts is 20 supply, but it adds up with the others)  and a handful of Colony Frigates scattered about to claim/reclaim planets, neutral extractors, and shipyards.

It would definitely need to take a very long time to get to, building the individual ships would yield better results for a specified fleet (i.e. if you wanted to take out a bunch of cobalts, the LRF fleet would be a better choice than the Super-Cruiser, but the Super Cruiser would be able to handle a wide variety of tasks in its own right)

The only problem would be in planet bombardment.  At 14 supply as I suggested, this ship would replace the Krosov altogether.  Perhaps bombardment should be left to the Krosovs in this instance, or raise supply cost for Super Cruiser to 16-18(Any higher and I think it would nulify the point of the ship)

To sum it up, it'd make the fights nastier, with the proper tweakage to the proposed unit.

Some stuff I may have spoken on twice here...I wrote it, then went back and added stuff in the middle...sorry bout that.

The numbers need changing, but as an idea in the infant stages, I like it.

-Twilight Storm | My life for the Dahkri

Hey guys,

Really looking forward to future developments in Distant Stars. Especially integration with the Sins Optimization Project. Do have one question about that though. Does it mean the amount of lag will decrease as well? Because right now I'm facing quite some lag in the larger multiplayer games (as does everyone I guess) however at those moments my memory usage is at 700-800mb, not even close to the 2GB limit. Playing at lowest settings with a fast and fairly new PC. So I hope the Optimization mod will effect my gameplay as well.

Another question which you developers probably hate to get, but I'm trying nevertheless. Any idea on when we can expect a new release of DS? Anything like within a few weeks or something?

Keep up the good work guys! Cheers

Ryat, were you talking just the model, or were you looking for something skinned?

I think a decent ability for your LRF to have would be the Kol's level 1 flak burst.  Seems fitting.