Houston I think we have a problem?   I put that min-Mod in Beta4. You know copy and paste then yes to all.

Do I need a new copy and keep mini-Mod separated or can still work on it or do both because the next version will be out soon???

I would have minimodded it just like the original DM, but it's not bad if you overwrote the other files.  All of the files of the ships are exactly the same as the B4 release, just with the focus fire set to false and the prefers to fighter attack set to true.  Everything else stayed the exact same.  Ultimately it's your preference on how you want it to run on your system.

The feedback I'm hoping to get is the overall speed and turn rates, and maybe a little input on the damage done per pass.  In the original DM it appeared to be rather sporadic on a few things.  Some ships had increased speed, whereas some had reduced speeds.  Some had damage values doubled whereas others didn't.  Most had angular acceleration rates changed to numbers that appeared to be pulled out of thin air while some ships maintained their original turns...  I personally don't care for that approach.

So if for example the heavy cruisers are taking forever to get back and make another pass, I'd need to know if there's a ship which is turning at a good rate, like the scouts, to compare numbers to as well as if battles are taking too long because there's just not enough bang per pass either because of flying by too quickly making for less shots on target or because the weapons themselves need to take some steroids.

I also need input on the missile frigates and torpedo cruisers.  If they should be made to stay put or if shooting on the run is good for them.  I was also thinking that the slower the ship makes a pass, the faster it should turn around, but I went out to a bar instead of working on anything so...  Yeah.  Deal with it. 

That works. You can also stack the mods like this.

Mini-Mod
Distant Stars

Many of us find this easier as it allows us to keep the main mod untouched for MP/testing/modding purposes.

If you are having issues due to what you did then yes.

Isn't that fairly micro intensive? I'm a fan of giving the light carriers, 'light' fighters / 'light' bombers and leaving everything else on capitals etc alone. Heck, give defensive hangers light and then the 'elite' etc ... I think that would be simpler than making the cpu do extra calculations.

One thing I never did like with the carriers was how effective they were and how hard they were to kill. The fact that ultimately they are defenseless also some how bothers me.

Why not just go with Light Carrier = Light Strike Craft Weapons Plat Form + Weaker Carrier Shields / Hull + Carrier Light Flack Defense (or pulse)? Carriers, even in today's military let alone a space scenario, should never be driven into a nasty firefight for any reason that I can think of. Keep their cost high but reduce how effective their payload is, how tough they are, and but give them just a smidgen of hope against other strike craft. That would force players to use ship tactics more than fighter tactics. It might also save the CPU some cycles which would free up the late game even more.

*brainstorms*

Driving them up to the battle with your fleet is microintensive?  Since when?  Like Siv was saying it's just part of his battle group which means that when he drives his fleet to fight the enemy, the carriers go too.  There is no additional mouse clicking required.  The way I described, putting them at the edge of the battle is only two additional clicks.  One to drag a select box around them, and another click near the battle to park them close by so they can buff the fighters.  Outside of that, the only thing you may have to do is pull them away from the battle if they start getting chewed up by enemy fire.  But that's pretty much the whole point of doing this.  If you want the bonus, you have to risk the ship.

That depends on what you see as their weapon system.  Some view the strike craft as their weapon system, others do not.  I was thinking about giving them a small weapon like what comes with the colony ships just because of their close proximity with the battles.  It's a Free Trader (nod to the DS lore) modification that I was going to slip in there at some point.    Now with the core game's update being pushed back a couple of weeks, I just might be able to get it done before then.

The rest, all I'm going to say is WW2 was the last time navies saw ship on ship action Sins style and carriers were getting wrecked just like every other ship in the battle group.  Ever since then tactics have changed to take advantage of the aircraft range and save the ship.  Since Sins is making a huge tactical step backwards forcing ships to openly engage each other, why not make another small tactical step backwards and have carriers engage too?

I was not talking about them being in a fleet already but controlled separately to keep them just out of the firefight but close enough to buff. (i.e. Ctrl1, Ctrl2, etc)

I was thinking of when you mentioned micro-ing the carrier to be just outside of the Star Base range as well as an ongoing (as of yet unresolved as far as I can read) debate about it's range against LRFs. Just seems like a large 'fiddle-factor' compared to most everything else in the game.

In WW2 and even today Carriers have some defensive armament (outside of their strike force task groups). Largely carrier groups were meant to protect the carrier with the destroyers and screening units to race forward to deploy smoke and engage the enemy while the carrier stayed back (when possible) on the back side of the group. Just some thoughts.

Thanks for editing the files, I'll give them a try.

Also, what do I use to convert them to text for editing as you mention? I know (or at least think I know) it has something to do with the modding kit that StarDock has for download... granted it was never updated for Diplomacy. (if there is a forum that describes how to do this and what to use, please point me there if it would save some time in the explanation.)

Use the converters. They can be found in the game file and are always up to date. harpo99999 tools can use they to change the files from BIN to TXT.

I get ya.  That's usually how I play them.  ctrl+# for the whole battle group to the planet/moon/star then letting the warships drive off and attack leaving the carriers at the edge, then selecting them separately and moving them in.  Plus an Alt+click on any 1 selects them all anyway so it's still rather easy to select them even if they're lumped into the group.

It's a bit of microing right now because the range isn't set in stone and it's being played with.  So there's let's move them here, no...  How about here...  Nah...  This looks good...  Once it is set for good, then moving them around to being in range to give their buff but not in range of attack will happen by sight and for me personally it'll be a much more hands off process.

I know, that's why I'm toying with the idea of giving them a weak laser battery to shoot with.  Probably not going to do anything in the way of anti strikecraft armaments because that would lessen the need for flak frigates which I definitely don't want to do.

Which is usually why they got wrecked.    Irony is had they stayed in the middle of the battle groups they would have had better fighter screens.  But the point still remains, even though they stayed at the back, they were still part of it, unlike in Sins where the main force can run up and go head to head, but the carriers just hang out well off and feed fighters and bombers.

Harpo's tools will work, they're not the only ones out there but they will definitely get the job done.  Sadly, there is no thread for discussing the process, however fortunately it's completely unnecessary.

But if you are going to jump into the world of modding Sins, for tools and other useful info:

http://soase.weebly.com/modding-tools.html

This.

This is why this new carrier buff is being applied.  Its to make carriers part of the battle not some distant harbringers of doom. We didnt want to discougage Carrier use. By all mean spam them like you do now. We did want to elimiate the jump in with large carrier group, send bomber or fighter to battle ACROSS THE GRAV WELL, laugh as you rape chruches and burn women, and if the enemy survives your onslaught and makes an attempt to attck your carriers the abiliy to warp out with out threat.

I could go on and on about how much SC SUCK. But I'll save yall the speech Ryat and Nacey got.

You want to eliminate this by buffing them? What? oO

I don't see the Problem in this tactic, not directly a fair fight but who cares?

Setup Mines should help to bring most of them down when they come in and after that you know that there will be more maybe and you can direct your fleet to the gravity well and say Hello.

 Oh btw, if you want some possible inspiration fir DS have a look at the Galactic Armory Mod for Star Rulers. Pretty different in many Ways but who knows?

The actual change in firepower of the SC is still at original levels. Its just now limited to a smaller area.

How this works is we reduced all not 'elite' SC damage by 33%.

Cruiser Carriers now have a buff that buffs their linked SC by 33%.

So it promotes bringing Cruiser Carriers into a fight per se insead of chilling alone at the edge of the grav well.

This change is to elimnate SC hordes from basically controling an entire grav well, and letting Cruiser Carriers 'fight' with any worry of damage. There is no other unit that can just sit back and run if in trouble and do the damage that Carriers can. It break the game.

Another added benfits is now Caps can hopfully retreat from a battle without being bomber straffed to death.

This really will only affect you, if your one of those asshole who spam carrier only and let them chill at the grav well edge. If you dont do that then...your solid. Just might actually have to postion carriers a bit or SC. A tiny bit more mirco but adds ton to gameplay.

Be glad they shot down my other SC ideas.

Thank you Stant123 and Myfist0 for the links. I've been wondering how to 'tweak' things to play more the way I've thought ships would behave in battle. Like carriers hanging on the outskirts of a battle giving support, torpedo and missile ships staying JUST within missile/torpedo range and withdrawing if attacked.  Little things like that.

What I'm hoping to do is tweak the already awesome Dynamic Movement mod for DS to be a little more close to what I think it should be like. By having the tools, I can do this now.

  (Once I figure them out)

EDIT: @-Ue_Carbon: That sounds like a winner too. That would defiantly make things more interesting and change the way I stigmatize my fleets. (No, I don't do the fighter/bomber spam... ruins the fun but 10 cruiser carriers to back a fleet DO help!)